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Greg
Sugg
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(8/9/04 3:13 pm)
67.180.137.46
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St. John Report
8/7 & 8/8
Cottonwood, 73 miles
I met Kurt and Anna at the tree in town
where I left my van and rode up with them. On the way up I said my
declaired goal was Cottonwood on Hwy I-5. Kurt launched at about
1:00 pm and I followed at 1:15. The day was very clear, and I could
easily see the green fields in the Sacramento Valley. We climbed out
slowly to 9,400 when I decided to go north. Kurt followed but went
deep to Sheet Iron Mt. while I made my usual crossing toward the top
of the next ridge. We worked our way to Alder Springs Rd. in typical
ratty lift but stayed above 5,000 most of the way.
At Alder
Springs Rd. Kurt got flushed down to 3,000 or so at the valleys
edge but rescued himself nicely. At the edge of Grindstone canyon I
got to 6,000 and headed across blissfully. I got drilled like hell
and lost 2,000 crossing it. The same happened to Kurt. We met up at
the ridge before Red Mtn. and climbed out, I to 5,500 and Kurt to
over 7,000! That was the last I saw of Kurt for the rest of the
flight. He took the deep path to the Gorge and Ball Mtn.
In
the valley and flats the day was characterized by very slow climbs,
no push from the wind, and sustained stretches of 800 fpm down.
I got to Paskenta easily but got down to 2,000 before I
found lift. Anna waited in Paskenta while I worked it. At about 42
miles out I got down to 500 AGL before managing a save in confused
scattered lift to about 3,700. Two miles further I got to 4,500,
and at the intersection of Lowrey and Colyear Springs Rds. I found
the nicest thermal of my flight: sustained 300+ fpm from 4,300 to
over 7,600.
At this same time Kurt was gliding out from the
mountains where he had gotten to over 8,000. To his amazement he
found 800+ fpm down air all the way to the ground on Red Bank Rd.
west of Red Bank for about 48 miles. Anna, who had been right below
me for a while, went to get Kurt, and I headed for Johnson Rd. which
Ive never been beyond.
My neck and back were really sore and
tired. At Johnson Rd., about 52 miles out, I got some lift and
jumped on up to Reeds Creek Rd. Again I found more light lift which
got me up to Hwy 36. From this point on I could smell victory, and
my aches and pains slipped from my consciousness. The terrain north
of Hwy 36 is mostly solid oak forest with a few landable areas. I
told Kurt and Anna to head for Cottonwood and switched the GOTO on
my GPS from St. John to Cottonwood.
My last good thermal of
the day was at Hooker Creek Rd. where I climbed and drifted from
2,300 to 6,526 with 7.3 miles to go. I had Cottonwood on a glide,
and sailed into town at 3,700. Too tired and sore to go much
further, I went sight seeing north to find a nice field. When I
neared my chosen field at about 75 miles out, I noticed that it was
crossed by three sets of high voltage power lines, the big kind. As
a matter of fact when I looked around, there seemed to be major
power lines all over the place!
So, I flew back to a big
beautiful field, which I was sure I could land in. It had big power
lines too, but lots of open space. I landed nicely at 6:45 pm the
intersection of Locust St. and Kimberly St. north of Cottonwood for
73 miles and 5.5 hours. Kurt and Anna were there by the time I had
carried the glider to the edge of the field and drained the tank
behind some tall bushes.
We got back to camp at the top of
St. John about 11:45 pm. The stars were great. The sleeping bag and
air mattress were even better.
Sunday Dave Clement and his
son Tom joined us. There was an inversion at about 8,400 so we all
flew out to town and landed. I had a very nice approach and then
whacked!  Kurt got it
all with his new super camera.
My special thanks go to Anna
for cheerfully chasing and urging me onward to Cottonwood. Thanks to
Kurt for reminding me to "twirl on up" when I complained about
getting low. 
Greg
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Donna
Matthias
Administrator
(8/9/04
3:24 pm)
67.122.79.102
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 St. John
Report 8/7 & 8/8
Greg,
CONGRATULATIONS...!!!!!!! YEAH! You did it.....I wish
I could have been there to celebrate but heck you have Kurt and Anna
- what could be better?
~Donna
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Gregg
Hackett
Member
(8/9/04 3:24 pm)
198.81.26.8
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Re: St. John
Report 8/7 & 8/8
WAY TO GO
GREG!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
the
other Gregg
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Leo
Jones
Unregistered
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(8/9/04 4:20
pm)
66.52.165.188
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Perseverance
pays!
I was beginning to think your goal was "Cottonwouldn't", but ya did
it. Great flight, Greg - and to goal too!
Leo
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Shawn
Stiver
Unregistered
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(8/9/04 8:58
pm)
67.164.21.52
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Congrats
Greg!
Awesome flight Greg!! Its amazing how you guys are all breaking
this site open this summer!
Shawn
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John
B
Unregistered User
(8/10/04 8:10 am)
65.214.144.206
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Duuuuude!
Great flight Greg!
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Vince
Endter
Member
(8/10/04 3:17 pm)
216.103.80.211
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Re: St. John
Report 8/7 & 8/8
Excellent job Greg. It's nice to see you get a long flight on the
safe and sane route. It won't be long before 70+ miles is the
norm.
Vince
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Greg
Sugg
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(8/10/04 7:51 pm)
67.180.137.46
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The Safe and
Sane Route
Thanks Vince. I've had this flight in my mind for a month or two.
At no point during the flight did I put myself in danger of not
having a landable LZ with good retrieval. I agree that these flights
will become the norm too. I think that one just needs to work on an
understanding of the lift patterns in the flats and an ability to
know when to race and when to milk it for all it's worth. I'm
working on both. Of course it helps to have flown this route several
times before with varying degrees of success. Flying the flats is
quite interesting; you're not tied to the mountains.
However,
I am also excited about the bold routes Scot has flown recently deep
in the mountains. I support him in his efforts to push the envelope.
"Different strokes for different folks." I think he is pioneering a
whole new way to view XC in this area, "Go to the lift". I am
envious, but I know my wants, needs, and limits. I will get 100
miles from St. John in accordance with my parameters. Scot is
basically doing the same thing with different parameters.
On
another note, way to go, buddy, in the comps. I have enjoyed all of
your postings and pictures in the last three big (expensive to do)
compititions. No doubt, you are the "home town hero". You have
enabled many of us to vicariously live your experiences from the
comfort of our computer chairs. Thank you very much! Your candor is
almost unknown in this day and age. I often say jestfully to pilots
I'm assisting on launch, "Make me proud". You have certainly made me
proud.
See you at the
hill.
Greg
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MattsFlyin
Unregistered
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(8/10/04 7:57
pm)
24.5.52.157
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Makin' It
Me too!
Matt "Me Proud" Jagelka
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Larry
L Roberts
Member
(8/10/04 8:33 pm)
66.167.121.123
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Re: St.John
Flight - Fantastic
Greg,
Great flight!! St. John continues to be "The Place" and it
sure beats the long drive to the Owens Valley. Glad to see your name
back on the long XC list. Great flight. The hang gliders are beating
my flights in my new "rigid wing".
-- keep going far,
Larry
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Lori
Allen
Member
(8/11/04 6:39 am)
67.161.254.27
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F-f-f-abulous
flight, Greg!!!
I'm envious in Utah.
Lori
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Gregg
Hackett
Member
(8/11/04 7:25 am)
198.81.26.8
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Re: Red
Tail
Potato Hill to Falkner Ridge (I think that is the name) 12 miles. 3
hour retrieve for 12 miles is a little much.
Gregg
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Tom
Moock
Member
(8/12/04 11:04 am)
208.200.221.5
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North via
St John
Hi Guys and Gals,
Tom Moock here, Bay Area paraglider guy. I
fly with Gregg Hackett often, especially up north.
BAPA held
its monthly races at Potato Hill last weekend. While Greg was
sailing north, we were up to the same thing, more or less, starting
from Spudville instead of St John. One of the old time instructors
who was with us asked why we launch there and not from SJ. We had
only weak reasons for doing so: force of habit, no long 4WD road,
and a launch site more suited to PG than St John. But to be honest
I've never launched or walked around up there; I've only gawked at
it from above.
But there does seem to be an advantage for a
StJ launch when your intent is big distances, and that is time.
Potato Hill is much lower than StJ and it takes longer to heat up
enough to get the altitudes necessary to make the jumps, first to
Snow Mt and then to St John. At best it will take an hour after
launching at PtH to get established on StJ, and a more realistic
estimate is two hours. And thus it was about 2:00 on Saturday by the
time Gregg and I got onto St. John.
Once over our turnpoint,
near the StJ launch, I got a wild climb that turned nasty above 8000
ft. So nasty that when it slowed at 8500 -- quite short of the 9000+
that Greg left with -- I didn't want to wait for Gregg and risk
getting low and having to take that climb again. I bailed and headed
north to Felker Ridge.
The way north from there was rather
uneventful, going up/down between 4000 and 7000 ft. But past Alder
Springs Road (I think), where I stopped to tank up for the crossing
of Grindstone Canyon, things got harder. I left with 6K, which
seemed like more than enough, but the hills on the opposite side of
the creek are flat and I got narry a peep for the whole glide. I
landed a couple of miles north of Grindstone, scratching my head and
wondering what happened.
Gregg followed me from St John
shortly thereafter, but got drilled on the glide and landed up on
Felkner.
On Sunday we had no retrieve, so we set up a
complicated local GPS task. If you saw us doing oddball things on
Snow, it was us trying (and failing) to tag a turnpoint in the deep
northeast of Snow Mt.
There was just one unusual thing that
happened to me on Sunday. Most of you fly sticks, and we accept that
a lot of the old timers believe that bags are dangerous near the
ground, and sometimes they are. I'm sure you would love to carve
into an 1800 fpm thermal but for me, with only 50-100 feet of ground
clearance, the proper term was bug-eyed panic.
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Greg
Sugg
Global User
(8/12/04 12:49 pm)
67.180.137.46
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Re: North
via St John
Tom,
I'm not a PG pilot, so I can't say for sure, but I
don't think St. John is very good for launching paragliders. There
doesn't seem to be any way to get the canopy inflated, and the ramp
may not be long or wide enough. You guys should check it out and see
what you think.
Turbulance:
Generally, I don't like to
hang out at St. John much longer than I have to because it is often
kind of rough. I like to get up and go. When going XC from St. John,
unless you fly the "cojones grandes" routes Scot has been trying,
you are really flying the low hills and flats after Red Mountain.
Some of our best XC flights have been on inverted crumby mountain
flying days. An invertion at 7,000' ro 8,000' doesn't affect you
much out on the flats.
Low saves:
Depending on the terrain
and time of day (high desert, etc.), trying to work thermals close
to the ground can be quite dangerous. They are too violent and
unorganized. I tried to get a low save near Stagecoach, east of
Carson City once. I was about 150' off the ground and saw a hawk
circling. Sure enough there was a thermal there. After two complete
circles I was sure I would die if I didn't get out of it. Luckily I
was heading into the wind when I finally got the wings level. I
would have gladly accepted a down wind crash just to save my skin. I
was freaked! I had a very exciting save from about 200' at Chrome
once. I stayed with it and got up, but I'm still not sure I made a
good decision.
Live to fly another day,
Greg
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Hangfly
Member
(8/12/04 1:01
pm)
12.149.141.14
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PG
launching at St John
Tom and other interested PG pilots, it may in fact be time to
re-evaluate our position on PGs at St John Mt.
I will give you a
little history and my concerns.
Often we, HGs, fly St John when
it's lee-side. The mountain is safely launchable and one doesn't
really notice the lee-side effect until getting above launch, most
of the time. In these conditions the area around launch can be
downwright unnerving. The glider can seem to have a mind of it's own
and there may be very little pitch pressure. If you can climb out in
these conditions you will start feeling the north wind coming over
the mountian and realize it's lee-side.
Years ago a respected
instructor and area shop owner brought a PG pilot up to fly St John.
The pilot launched and climbed out a hundred feet or so then
promptly got hammered into the top of the mountain, breaking his
back and precipitating a helicopter rescue. This is where our
reservation comes from.
If a pilot is very sure of the wind
aloft conditions around the mountain this situation could be
avoidable. It could also be that PG technology has improved to where
they may be more capable of flying out of these situations. I don't
know. Enlighten us stodgy old HG pilots. Are PGs and their pilots
that better than they were nine years ago? Don't they still collapse
in certain turbulent situations? How long do they take to recover
from a collapse?
Charley, aka Hangfly the Airhead
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Gregg
Hackett
Member
(8/12/04 2:35 pm)
198.81.26.46
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Re: PG
launching at St John
Charley, your concerns are well founded. Paragliders have been
improved dramatically in the last few years. There are still higher
performance wings that are faster but also are more prone to
collapses (like mine). I am very careful when I get near St. John
just for that reason. I have left St. John at times because it was
lee and I was not interested in scraping my body off of the
mountain. I am usually very conservative with the exception of
following Tom last Sat. headed north from St. John. That was when I
sank like a rock and ended up landing on Felkner Ridge (I'm still
not sure if that is the name or not - the first ridge north of St.
John). As rowdy as it gets there, I probably will not fly off St.
John unless it is early and that defeats the purpose of launching
there. People like Tom and Eric would have a better idea of how safe
it is to launch there. It may be a good idea to go up there and look
at it in person with some of you hangies there to explain the
terrain. If it is questionable, you won't see me launching there.
Anybody else have thoughts on this subject.
Gregg
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Jon
James
Unregistered
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(8/12/04 4:20
pm)
192.25.142.225
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Pg at St
John
The long glide out to a good LZ, Fouts, is 8-to-1. That's long,
especially for early hang gliders. Davis Flat and the Visitors
Center may be closer, like 7-to-1.
The launch was always
shallow, light, and set back. Difficult for hang gliders, worse for
pgs. No good lay out area.
The turbulence, which can be
substantial, has already been mentioned.
Potato has a much
steeper launch, is close to the lz, and is low and protected better
from west winds.
It's a much closer turn-around - who wants
to take 4 flights off St John in a day?
Tom is probably right
about St John being better for xc, although it seems to me the pgs
are soaring on Spud earlier than we can stay up on St
John.
If an experienced xc pilot wants to fly from St John,
that might be ok (although getting up there can be
rough).
I'd hate to see new or inexperienced pg pilots trying
to fly from there.
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Leo
Jones
Unregistered
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(8/12/04 5:35
pm)
66.52.165.75
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Paragliding at St. John
How I wish PGers could fly from St. John, and all the sites we HG
pilots fly from. I know paragliders have improved immensely over the
past few years, so has the knowledge. However, St. John can be a
turbulent place when you are close in.
Most days when you
can launch off the ramp you can also launch off of the west launch
at St. John. This may be a better launch than the ramp for
paragliders.
Check it out. Use your judgement. It has to be a
P4 site. Find a new launch - it might not be impossible.
Re.
landings - well in emergency there are pretty big sloping meadows
only about a 3:1 from launch at St. John. They would probably be a
lot easier for PG than HG.
Leo
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Greg
Sugg
Global User
(8/12/04 6:34 pm)
67.180.137.46
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Re:
Paragliding at St. John
Almost every time I go up the mountain at St. John I see
paragliders already soaring Potato Hill as we are approaching the
turn off near Fouts. Then it takes us another 40 minutes to drive up
to launch. Then it takes us another 45 minutes before we are ready
to launch. Then it takes us usually another 10 minutes for the first
pilot to launch.
Thats over an hour and a half from the time
we see paragliders already soaring at Potato Hill. Sometimes I see
paragliders AT ST. JOHN before any of us are ready to launch. So,
consider and weigh all this with the other concerns in your
assessment of St. John as a PG launch site. If you still think it
looks good, come on and "get ya' some!"
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Tom
Moock
Member
(8/13/04 12:27 pm)
208.200.221.5
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PG, St
John
Hey Charley,
I am old enough to remember the accident you
describe. I wasn't there that day but a friend of mine at work was,
and I was a student of the instructor in question. It is another
reason why I've never gone up there.
My instructor told me
about the incident, and although he described the conditions as
'ripping' he didn't say it was lee-side. I don't recall what the
level of the pilot was, but if he was being coached he couldn't have
been a P4.
Launching in the lee with a PG can be done as
long as the winds are mild and you know what to expect. Both Gregg
and I have climbed up the west face of St John in an east wind, and
although it wasn't easy, the wind was not that strong either. I've
also gone over there in a stiff NE and...well, it wasn't pretty.
Don't know what I was thinking.
Regarding LZ's: I hate to say
it but I've landed twice at the base of St John, on or near the
road, so it isn't vital that we make it out to the Fout Springs LZ.
So the conclusion I guess, after hearing from people who go
up there often, is that unless someone is preparing for a
record-breaking PG flight, it still doesn't make a lot of sense to
start from St John.
Cheers -- Tom
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