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Hangfly
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(8/2/04 7:07
am)
12.149.141.14
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Dust Devils on
Hull
Another exciting w/e at Hull. Saturday I got there too late to fly.
But heard there was another incident with a H2. Seems a pilot named
Monterey (sp?) ended up in an oak tree 15 feet off the ground on a
ridge behind the airstrip. Search and rescue was called when people
were unable to contact or locate him. Search and rescue happened to
be on training, camping at Navy Camp. Chopper was in the air 6
minutes when the pilot was spotted, by his friends, walking toward
the LZ. Sorry I have no further details.
Both days were good
flying with clouds and altitudes to around 10K.
Sunday two
pilots sustained minor injuries when they were struck by gliders
falling out of dust devils. One devil picked up two, mostly
assembled gliders, and many bags and other debris. The gliders
quickly went nose to nose in the whirllwind. The mass spun around a
few times heading east, away from the set-up area. Then the gliders
were dumped out the back-side and fell back toward people and more
gliders from about 50'. Sridar and a Berkley pilot were injured by
the falling debris. Another glider sustained a broken keel when
struck by falling gliders! Sridar's glider was thrashed. The sail
got a hugh rip. The other glider will have to be disassembled to
know the extent of damage. This motivated me to finish setting up
and get off the hill. I launched first at 2:15. Mike K. got dumped
by another dust devil while walking to launch. I think he only
sustained leading edge rash. I think people should start bringing
ground anchors to
Hull.
Hangfly
BTW; Way
to go Scot!!!
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John
B
Unregistered User
(8/2/04 7:29 am)
65.214.144.215
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Twisted
gliders
Sunday's Oakland balloon soundings showed some pretty strong east
winds at Hull launch type altitudes. That prompted me to stay home
and go to the movies.
The "Village" and the "Manchurian
Candidate" were both really good.
I sure that it was more
thrilling being at Hull. I hope no one was seriously mangled.
So far this year, I have not managed to fly Hull!
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sridhar
Unregistered
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(8/2/04 8:53
am)
64.243.137.114
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Saturn
RIP
Being in the heart of the action, I couldn't see anything. Mike K
and others had a nice front row seat though. Observers think I had a
launch and landing, but I’m not sure both feet got off the ground.
As I was stuffing battens yesterday at Timberline, I hear “dust
devil” yelled. Being at the back of the glider, there is not much to
grab on to but I made an attempt to grab the keel and flying wires
as the glider proceeded to flip over me. With the control frame now
in view, I then lunged to grab a down tube or something. This seemed
to further anger the thermal gods so they proceeded to lift the
glider out of my grasp. About this time, my eyes were closed and I
was on the verge of crying for my mommy. I don’t remember much else
other than letting go and feeling dust and cloth and wires spinning
around me and getting knocked on my butt. Apparently it was quite a
site with my glider doing a dance with another glider over 10 ft in
the air and then coming down on another glider. When everything
quieted down and I opened my eyes, I had blood splattered all over
me, but the cause was 3 minor cuts on the bridge of my nose. In the
fight between myself and my glider, I won. The sail is torn and
major pieces of aluminum are bent or dented. I won’t know the full
damage until an autopsy is performed. The positive to all this was
two pilots were grounded meaning just enough drivers to avoid doing
a retrieve. So I guess it’s time for a glider upgrade. Any thoughts
on a Litesport vs. U2 vs. kingposted Laminar vs. Discus? Helping
people launch made me glad not to be flying. Wind was crossing 90
degrees from the left. When people managed to launch in a straight
cycle, they immediately got hammered by the left component with lots
of expletives and soiled undergarments. But once out of the
sinkholes, there was abundant lift. Gazis was the best; while most
pilots yelled “clear”, Paul yelled something like
“aaaahhhaaaararrgh!!!” during his run and followed it with an “oh
shit!” when he got hammered. Strong words of wisdom from our
regional director.
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MattsFlyin
Unregistered
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(8/2/04 9:44
am)
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Dusties
My hand is still abit tender from my encounter with a dusty while
launching from Timberline earlier this year. Glad to hear no one was
seriously injured.
I'd like more info on the latest H2
disaster. Hull is a great H2 site and there is no reason for this
type of H2 incident except poor judgement. Launching early in light
conditions and flying out to the LZ are very easy things to do. The
pilot and his instructor need a thorough review before this guy
flies Hull again.
Matt
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Dick
Girard
Member
(8/2/04 11:17 am)
24.6.237.200
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H2 Incident at
Hull
On Saturday, after I launched, I noticed a glider well below me. I
was scratching over Redspot. First I saw a glider that seemed to be
heading towards the knob just N of the airstrip. He looked quite
low, but I've seen that before, so didn't give it much
thought.
After scratching a bit longer, still over Redspot, I
noticed a glider that was WAY LOW, making passing turns in the
heavily treed area. This area was bordered by the House spine (the
spine from the House to the Knob), a ridge that runs somewhat
East/West, and the road along the ridge going up the hill.
It looked to me like he was boxed in, looking for a way out.
I thought "Holy s**t, this person is either way low, or a very good
pilot, or it's an optical illusion." Turns out the first guess was
right (after I spoke to the pilot later).
I watched him for
maybe 5 minutes, then lost sight of him as I hooked a thermal and
looked back again. He looked so low that I almost expected to see a
chute deployed. After I lost sight of him, I thought that maybe it
was just a really good pilot who know what he was doing.
When
I later headed for the LZ, I passed over the area real slow, making
a few S turns and staring straight down to see if I could spot
anything white. Nothing. So I figured it must have been a really
good pilot, or an optical illusion as to how low he
looked.
After I landed, someone came up to me and asked if I
had seem anyone real low anywhere. I said, yes, in fact, I had. I
described it a bit, then went for swim at the boat
ramp.
While I was drying off, a vehicle shows up and said
"Are the guy who saw someone real low?" I said yes I am. He and his
friends were friends of the pilot who now seemed to be missing. I
described the area where I saw him last, then they left.
When
I returned to the LZ, there were three vehicles headed out, with
Gunther in the lead. Gunther told me that I should follow him to the
Navy Campground, where the Search and Rescue team was conducting a
training session this weekend. I did.
The Lake County Sheriff
was gathering info from everyone, and I described where I last saw
him. They also dispatched a helicopter. While the helicopter was in
the air, the lost pilot's friends managed to make contact with the
pilot, who had an FRS radio. Now we knew he was alive, at
least.
The pilot finally showed up at the S&R camp. I
asked him what happened. He said he had trouble getting into his
harness right after launch, so sunk out right away. He said he was
indeed boxed in later on, but didn't explain how he ended up where
he was, and I didn't want to press him too much right then.
He said he indeed making passes back and forth, trying to
figure out how to get out. He ended up landing in a tree. [A more
experienced pilot could have landed on the side of the hill behind
him, which was the only treeless area around. He could also have
thrown his chute rather than risk landing in a tree and falling.] He
then climbed down the tree (15'), then hiked 0.7 miles to the LZ
through very thick brush. He was not hurt in any way (very lucky
dude!). He seemed very coherent and calm, but also very embarrassed.
He and his buddies had plans on retrieving the glider the next
day.
While waiting with his friends in the S&R area, they
told me that he was a H2, trained at Mission Soaring Center, and had
flown Hull once, two years ago. I also believe he spoke with Doug
Carmichael while setting up, so he probably got some sort of
briefing before he launched. I believe his name is Montecarlo (first
name), but forgot his last name. I also believe he lives in the
Oakland area. He is 32, really nice guy, with a wife waiting at
home.
I know Hull is an unregulated site, and there isn't
much we can do to MAKE pilots to anything. But I'm thinking that
whatever is being done to assist new pilots on low to
intermediate-performance gliders probably isn't enough. This was the
second time that a newbie on a low-performance glider let themselves
fly East of the airport and North of the tree'd area, putting them
in a direct headwind to the LZ. Their gliders just can't handle such
a headwind, and they don't have the experience to know what to do
when encounter strong sink with an obstacle in their path.
I
propose that the more-experienced pilots, preferably those who fly
there often, keep an eye out for any low- to medium-performance
glider while setting up, then try to assess the pilot's skills and
exeperience at Hull. Does the pilot have a 2-meter radio? An FRS
radio just doesn't cut it. If not, maybe thye can borrow one [Donna
Matthias said she'd be happy to loan a pilot her radio. I'm sure
others might have a spare around also.]
If he is considered
a "newbie", assign a Mentor who will launch right after the newbie
and keep an eye on him while flying, keeping in constant radio
contact to advise him during the flight. They should be advised to
not fly more East than the House spine/airstrip, and if they get
low, to head to the knob, then to the "X" on the airstrip, then cut
across to the LZ to avoid a direct headwind. Maybe this might help
prevent another "Neal Cruz" accident. This guy was lucky. Very
lucky.
I asked him if he would write up a report on this. He
didn't seem too anxious to do so, but didn't say yea or nay. I told
him that we could all benefit by his insight into what happened, and
any other insight he might provide to his fellow pilots. But in case
he doesn't write it up, I will write up a report for USHGA. If he
ends up writing it up also, then great. The more info the better.
Dick Girard
|
Daniel
Pifko
Global
User
(8/2/04 11:22
am)
64.165.57.235
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Anchors for
Hull
I have two anchors I'm willing to donate for installation at
Timberline. These are dog tie-down stakes (one is http://www.petco.com/product_info.asp?sku=1733420000&dept_id=%2D2
and the other something like http://www.petco.com/product_info.asp?sku=1733442120&dept_id=%2D2
) with some REI climbing rope. I was planning to install them at
some launch and tie my hang strap to the climibing rope.
I
think the soil at St. John is too shallow where dusties would be,
but they could work at Timberline.
Unfortunately, I have no
plans to go to Hull this year. If anyone would like to take them up
to Hull and screw them in, I can do an exchange at the St. John
fly-in.
Daniel
Edited by: Daniel
Pifko at: 8/2/04 12:51 pm
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Andy
Long
Member
(8/2/04 12:15 pm)
24.5.57.122
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Anchors at
Timberline
I think Daniel is right in getting the ball rolling for creating
tie downs at Hull. It's long overdue. I tend to wonder though
whether the screw in variety will be enough to hold down a fully set
up glider that is under attack by a big dust devil in the rocky
soils around Timberline.
I was thinking, especially in light
of the fact that I now have a glider that is much more easily
damaged, of taking some thick re-bar and pounding in two long stakes
at a 70-90 degree angle to each other so that they cross right above
the ground in an X. You could then loop something around them then
tie it to your hang loop.
I think you need something REALLY
strong that won't come out of the ground because if the dust devils
at Hull can lift a glider that's still in the bag into the air,
think of how much upward force they can exert on a fully set up
wing.
It also wouldn't be a bad idea to have a good sharp
knife at the ready in a sheath on your harness while waiting in line
to launch. I'd hate to be frantically fiddling with my carabiner(s)
trying to unhook while a big dust devil is bearing down on me and
I'm still hooked in with nowhere to go. One pass on your hang loops
with a good knife would free you from your glider if you find
yourself taking off prematurely.
- Andy
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Ernie
Camacho
Administrator
(8/2/04
1:32 pm)
24.5.51.30
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Re: Anchors at
Timberline
If any of the King regulars is lurking here, maybe they can
describe the tie-down anchors they installed there. I think that
they are lengths of thick rebar (3/4 - 1 in.) with a big flat washer
welded near the top so that you can tie a rope to it. They are
pounded into the ground until only the last inch or two are showing.
One the one hand, they seem to be strong enough to hold a
glider down. On the other hand, they can destroy your truck's tires
if you catch one on your side wall. I did just that with a new set
of tires on my Land Cruiser. As I was trying to park out of the way
of other vehicles, pow!
If we can deal with the puncture
issue, and if the forest service doesn't mind us placing them there,
and if there won't be a liability problem (dirt bikers, off
roaders), then it would be an easy enough project to build a bunch
of 'em and set up some tie-down rows.
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Ernie
Camacho
Administrator
(8/2/04
7:12 pm)
24.5.51.30
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Dust Devil
caught in the act!
Guess what? Donna managed to snap a photo of the dust devil, just
as it started to do its dance of destruction. Unfortunately, she
didn't realize what a show was about to take place so she put her
camera away after taking this shot.
You'll
notice that Sridhar hasn't quite yet realized the seriousness of the
situation. He's still holding a batten in his hand. Off to the right
edge of the photo is Mike Kunitani in his front-row seat. At the
left of the photo is the Berkeley pilot, holding the nose of his
glider and patiently waiting his turn to dance with the
devil.
The interesting detail for me is the fact that Sridhar
is in exactly the spot I normally use to set up my
glider!
Nice shot, Donna!
Edited by: Ernie
Camacho at: 8/2/04 7:15 pm
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J
Blacet
Unregistered
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(8/3/04 6:38
am)
65.214.144.220
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White
Devils
It seems like the devils prefer the set up area near the
parking?
Hs anyone had problems in the other set up area?
|
Mike
Connell
Unregistered
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(8/3/04 7:46
am)
209.86.242.91
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dust
devils
My glider got dragged(and me with it)right by that burned-up dead
tree on the east side of the other set-up area about ten years ago.
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MattsFlyin
Unregistered
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(8/3/04 9:24
am)
12.149.141.14
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Dusted
That's a great shot of the action by Donna. I have to disagree
slightly with Ernie's interpretation mainly because I'm just being
picky. If you look closely you can see that Sridhar's right hand is
open! His nosecone is already spiraling up and he must have just
heard the cry of "Dust Devil" because he seems to be dropping the
batten and making his move for the keel. And I really like your
description of the action Sridhar. I made me laugh out loud when you
said you were "on the verge of crying for my mommy". As for glider
recommendations I'd have to go with Wills Wing's U2 because of their
great service and support. Ok my break is over...back to work
Matt
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paulgazis
Unregistered
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(8/3/04 6:02
pm)
209.86.255.69
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Dusties at
Hull
This is something like the fifth time in the last two years I've
seen dusties blow through the setup area at Timberline. Conditions
were similar every time -- light out of the east or south when
pilots arrived on launch, beginning to turn west as the slope heated
up. Each time, the dusties hit around 2 PM. It's reached the point
where if I see that the wind is S or E when I arrive at Timberline,
I switch to Owens Valley Setup Mode, and leave the glider in the bag
as long as I can.
There has always been some warning. Each
time, the wind has gone absolutely dead, with a few minutes of
absolute silence before the arrival of that nasty little snarl which
means someone may have to pull out their checkbook sometime soon.
The last three times, the dusties hit the lower part of the setup
area down near the road, but the two times before that, they hit the
upper shelf just behind launch. Once, I saw a dusty thread its way
between three parked gliders without hitting a single
one.
Until Sunday, I had never seen one hit the launch
itself, but there was a second little dusty, much smaller than the
monster that demolished Sridhar's glider, that tried to grab Mike
K's wing when he was hooked in right next to launch. I was not
thrilled by this. That sort of thing can be Too Much Fun. I didn't
hook in until I was actually standing on launch, and I asked Sridhar
to stay on my nose wires (thanks, Sridhar!) until I was pretty much
ready to go.
I hope my Patented Launch Yell --
"Yeeeeaarrrrrgh!" (tm) -- has scared the dusties away for the rest
of the season 
Paul
P.S. Of course, the Yell did seem to attract
quite a bit of sink. As well as a strong headwind and bit of a rotor
from the left. Darn it...
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Sridhar
Unregistered
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(8/4/04 9:05
am)
64.243.137.114
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Dustie
Wow! Now I finally see what hit me. Mike had a strategic location
where the dustie just bypassed him, but also gave him a front row
seat. This photo is getting framed for my wall! Thanks Donna and
thanks for the first aid!
-Sridhar
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Donna
Matthias
Administrator
(8/4/04
3:53 pm)
67.122.79.102
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Re:
Dustie
Sridhar,
Hey, your welcome for the picture of the action and
the first aid. What are friends for? As soon as I snapped the
picture someone yelled "Dust Devil" and when I looked away from my
camera you were doing a dance with your glider. It all happen so
fast that the only thing I could think to do was run and help you
hang on. By the time I got to you the dust devil left you and
attacked your neighbor. If my memory serves me right you and your
glider did a cartwheel.... . I'm
really gald that nobody was hurt bad and metal can always be
replaced. Until we meet again on Hull....take care.
~Donna 
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Skysurfer78
Member
(8/7/04 1:30
pm)
4.11.15.142
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Re: Dust Devils
on Hull
Here's what I use to anchor my glider down with dust devil in mind.
Take two twelve inch nail spikes (about 90 cents at any hardware
store) and drive them into the ground at 45 degrees so that they
cross each other at 90 degrees. Drive them down until they protrude
from the ground about two inches. Then take a strong boot lace and
tie a constrictor knot around the nail heads, wrapping one loose end
twice around the top and the other twice around the bottom of the
constrictor. Finish with a surgeons knot. Now thread a cord through
the anchor and through the nose loop attachment of the glider, and
tie a draw-hitch (or any stable knot that can be untied quickly).
The idea is that if a devil is near, you can yank on the cord
(quickly releasing the draw-hitch) and pull up on the cord, thus
pulling the nose of the glider to the ground via the anchor. This
doesn't give the devil much to grab hold of aerodynamically and you
can maneuver around easily if it does spin. Also, this type of
anchor is very quick to place and very easy to remove. I tie a red
shop rag to the cord on the anchor so it is easy to spot (for truck
tires and also for removal). This is only one method, but it's tried
and true.
Edited by: Skysurfer78
at: 8/7/04 7:13 pm
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