For those of us interested in the latest crop of topless flex-wings, here’s a pilot review, and subsequent discussion, from a

For those of us interested in the latest crop of topless flex-wings, here’s a pilot review, and subsequent discussion, from a Bay Area pilot:

Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 08:10:27 -0800

From: Tom Rust <trust@nanochip.com>

Subject: Talon 150 review

I had a chance to fly the blue 150 Talon at Mission Soaring twice – one quick flight (sledder) and an awe inspiring Eagle Award winner at Mission ridge/ Ed Levin this last weekend. For those unaware, this is what you get when you fly from Ed Levin down to Mission and back. Ordinarily, not as easy at it seems. On the Talon, with a good day - piece of cake.

Having flown a Litespeed 5 (same wing area as the Talon - 150) about a month ago at Indian Valley (Ken Brown's - the one he flew in the Nationals), and having come to the realization that flex wing hang gliders have made a quantum leap in the last few years, I told Pat he had a mighty difficult task beating a Litespeed.

What’s the Litespeed got? Light pitch handling, awesome speed range, excellent sink rate at high speed (until you've pulled the VG on full, at 8000', and gone smokin’ thru the sky at what seems like 50mph, and NOT losing altitude, you have not experienced the latest in flex gliders).

Cores thermals almost effortlessly, easy ground handling, lands SLOWER than my Ramair - well, what could beat it?

A Talon.

I have never flown a glider with such light handling. I call it "pinky" flying, cuz you can fly it with your pinkies. Light pitch pressure, and ESPECIALLY light roll handling. I've never flown a glider that could turn so fast. Why would I want a rigid wing, when I can have almost the same performance AND all the fast, light handling performance of a Talon? The amazing thing is that the Talon keeps this light handling THROUGHOUT its entire VG range. I dunno about doing a fast turn with the VG on though, you might black out from g's...

Thermalling? One quick crank and you can let go of the bar – you’re instantly dialed in to "autothermal" mode - even those pesky sheered thermals from wind. Just pick your preferred bank angle and "pinky" fly it. Sweet!

Did I mention the glide at full VG? Pat was flying an Atos out over the LZ - I pulled on the VG and zip - caught up to him in oh, maybe 2 heartbeats, and lost maybe 100' (over about 1/2mi). Once even, I could stay with him on sink - no problem.

A little note on that nifty carbon control bar - I didn't wear my gloves, since it seemed like a pretty warm day - the carbon tube is nice and warm, even though the air got cold - a point to keep in mind if your like me, and want to fly with as little between me and the wind as I can get away with and stay warm.

Landing? Well of course you DO need to keep in mind a bit of extra space is required. But, like the Litespeed, the Talon will land at what seems like unusually low airspeed, and seems to have a wide flair window.

The main difference I noted between the Litespeed and the Talon was the light handling throughout the speed range. Not that the Litespeed was all THAT much work to control - it really isn't. But the Talon was noticeably lighter - especially at low speeds and particularly in roll.

One other noted difference - at hi speeds you really had to keep "on" the Litespeed to keep it tracked straight - it was very yaw sensitive and would yaw back and forth a bit until you got the hang of keeping it from yawing. But the Talon had none of that - it flew straight like on rails effortlessly.

My only complaints are not with the performance but with those dang tip wands – it’s a bitch getting them in and out. Same for both gliders. I know, I know, it takes getting the "trick" down on bending the wand.

I also like the idea of these wands though - fault tolerance - if you end up on a wing tip, the wand will break and absorb much of the impact - hopefully sparing much more expensive damage.

I've dearly loved my Ramair for 7 years now, and have tried some of the best of the flex wings that have come out since then - the XC, Larry Tudor's Laminar (pretty sweet also), early Fusion's, and now the Litespeed and Talon. I just never got all that worked up over any of these - until I flew the Litespeed. Flying my Ramair the next day, I yanked the VG on all the way and ...oh man, I knew I was in trouble - I'd tasted the sweet honey, and there's no going back...

There was always some little thing about the intervening Wills gliders I just didn't quite think was worth the extra $. I've always appreciated the commitment Wills has made to service and support - you know when you buy a Wills glider they will do whatever it takes to get it right for you. You know it is solid hardware wise. You know you can get spare parts and repairs ASAP. But I kept looking for the "perfect" (for me) flex wing glider.

This time they've done it.

yep - ordered me a nice bright red one...

Tom Rust

Nanochip Inc

Box 13249

Oakland, CA 94661

(510) 339-6263

(510) 339-9636 FAX

(510) 912-4662 cell

http://www.nanochip.com

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From: condorclub@aol.com

Tom, was the Talon you tested a dacron sail, or a mylar sail?

Thanks

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From: Knowvne@aol.com

HEY TOM, WAS THE TALON YOU FLEW A 150 OR 160? AND WAS IT MYLAR OR DACRON ??? BY THE WAY, WHAT DO YOU HOOK IN AT?

I REALLY LIKED THE ONE I FLEW AS WELL... IT THERMALS GREAT IT HAS AN AUTO THERMAL POSITION IN THE VG... JUST FIND THAT SPOT AND ADJUST YOUR PITCH WHILE YOU CLIMB... IT WAS GREAT... I FLEW THE MYLAR VERSION...

THANKS FOR THE HEADS UP

MARK

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From: Tom Rust <trust@nanochip.com>

I flew the 150 recently, and have not yet tried a 160. To tell the truth, I'm not sure I want a 160, even though it may float even better than a 150. When I flew it this last weekend, conditions were very light at first, and most of the hang gliders at the time (there were a lot of fat single surface gliders in presence), got flushed. Even the paragliders were having a tough time of it. Surprisingly, I was easily able to stay up, could deftly thread my way around the bags around launch (there ISN'T a lot of room at Ed Levin), and when it did turn on, I felt like rocket man - pull on the VG and zoom wherever you want to go.

I weigh 210, and with harness, probably 230. I fly Funston a lot, and when it sheers there, you want all the penetration you can get.

I've gotten to the point where I'm pretty spoiled flying - if it’s a marginal day, I just don't fly unless I'm REALLY air-horny. I wanna see more of the world from the air - heavier wing loading means better penetration means I can go further. The 150 is heavy enough as it is – I don't really want any more weight lugging around on the ground.

What I've noticed with these higher performance gliders is that the float performance is just as good if not a tad better at low speeds - the wings are just that much more efficient that the smaller squares is made up for in the higher efficiency - less drag also helps. It is easily as good a floater as my 154 Ramair, but way better in every other respect except time to set up, and weight.

I think another key aspect is maneuverability and sensitivity. When you can feel the slightest thermal bump, and swiftly turn to use its lift, your much more efficient as a pilot. A bigger wing will only be slower and less sensitive.

Tom Rust

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From: condorclub@aol.com

>The main difference I noted between the

>Lightspeed and the Talon was the light

>handling throughout the speed range.

Tom, not to defend the Litespeed or impune the Talon, but since I know that Ken's Nat's Litespeed was mylar equipped and your demo Talon was dacron, this would explain the handling difference between them.

A mylar sail on any modern topless gives a nice little edge in performance but takes quite a substantive hit in handling.

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From: Tom Rust <trust@nanochip.com>

You could well be right, JB - I've heard claim that the mfgers are getting better handling out of the mylar sails these days - and Ken's was a sweet handling glider indeed. But I'm not a comp pilot - I just fly for the joy of it, and I'd prefer the longer lasting characteristics of a dacron sail, and if it buys me better handling as well, well ok!

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From: condorclub@aol.com

If I didn't compete, I wouldn't even consider a mylar wing. As you pointed out, today’s dacron ships are just sooooo sweet.

Enjoy your new Talon.

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From: greg_knepp@yahoo.com

Tom,

Sounds like the T150 is the right glider for you.

Your wing loading on it is 2.03 lbs/sq ft. Your wing loading on the 160 would be 1.93.

My wing loading on the T150 and T160 would be about 2.43 and 2.31 respectively. Steve Pearson said other changes (in addition to the extra squares) were made to the T160 to handle weight better. (He didn't specify what.)

I'm hoping that those changes haven't affected the flying characteristics of the machine very much, because I can use all the weight carrying capability I can get (Even if I manage to lose some "ballast"), and your report on the 150 is very inspiring.

Greg "big-and-tall" Knepp

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From: greg_knepp@yahoo.com

Subject: Handling characteristics of Mylar Vs. Dacron

JB's comment reminded me of an interesting comment made by Gerolf Heinrichs in an LZ conversation in September.

He stated that handling has more to do with the material used in the original design and tuning than the characteristics of the material itself.

He said the Litespeed was first designed, tested and tuned using an all-mylar sail, so it handles very sweetly in that configuration. The logic is that the Dacron version that followed was even better in handling. (Presumably giving up some performance as a result.)

He said some other manufacturers first design, build, test and tune their gliders using Dacron, then offer an all-mylar option. This takes a wing with great handling characteristics in Dacron and makes it stiff in the Mylar version.

Interesting point of view, even if it's not quite objective. :-)

Greg

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